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Went and looked at the site i saw they now have a pic of the lowboy done in black but still no video of the excavator yet, i really wanna see a new video of it in action.
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video is up but the operator sucks and nothing showing digging in the dirt to see the power:(
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I clicked on the link but it wont let me see it it sasys this video is private:(
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Almost looks too light the way it's lifting? Guess that's what happens when you try to dig with the flat part of the back bucket.... :)
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When is somebody going to just buy one and test it so everybody can stop speculating????:p
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A friend of mine ordered one last week.....now, I can't say if this was just before or just after they ran out of stock :D
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Video is up sweet... Operator looked a little rough in his abilities lol
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I'm no expert,but,looks like a real light built model. It takes nothing to get a half or quarter bucket full of pee gravel.with a better built machine you can grab a full bucket of stone & not phase the pump,or move the machine around.
It looks like it would never cut the mustard in a dirt dig situation. But then again,you can buy two or three of them for the price of one good one.:rolleyes: Guess the feed back will be filtering in soon. Some pics of the guts,mil per min,bar & weight would be a nice thing to know before spending $2700. Just my .02. FGD |
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Being the responsible company RC4WD is, I'm sure they are brainstorming on how they can send a representative out to the Indy show to demostrate their fine product. I know they want to satisify all the questions about this model and I am sure they would receive the appropiate feedback from hands-on operators. I really believe this...... :rolleyes:
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Are you that representive Rob? :D
I know that two were sold in the USA... though they didn't mention who. I think the inquisitive info everyone is seeking will surface here shortly. ;) |
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Is it me or there is another 100$ more on the price ????......people interested should order it fast :rolleyes:
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Seeings how so many of you would rather speculate than take a chance on trying something new, a couple wks ago I snapped up the last HK hoe presently available.
It arrived Friday in less than perfect condition... it was well package, no structural damage from the trip overseas... it says on rc4wd's site "that product has been tested prior to shipping"... well that's great I guess, except that person responsible forgot to close the vent on the hyd tank ---> model soaked in oil! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...1/IMG_0545.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...1/IMG_0546.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...1/IMG_0547.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...1/IMG_0548.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...1/IMG_0549.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...1/IMG_0552.jpg Here's a couple of videos I made this morning... listen to how the brushless pump motor sounds & compare that to 850 on my other vids. In the basement with the lights on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8eyMILf-UU Outside on the pile http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6c2ZIpgOqE http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...1/IMG_0553.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...1/IMG_0554.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...1/IMG_0555.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...1/IMG_0556.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...1/IMG_0557.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...1/IMG_0558.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...1/IMG_0559.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...1/IMG_0561.jpg I've got a few issues to work out, like the hyd pump seems to be straining awfully hard... I got it Friday, noticed on the outside of the looked like an oil stain. I'm now wondering if the brushless motor is somehow affected with possibly being soaked up with oil? And what pray tell may have the oil contamination done to the rest of the electronics? I sent rc4wd a mail about it Friday and pointed out in the videos I sent today that the brushless motor is not sounding or seemingly operating properly... guess I'll wait to see what they say. 1st impressions, despite the pump motor trouble; it's a nice sized model with pretty good ability to move earth effectly. It's right in the middle between Stahl's 922 & Vario's 850 size wise. Only time will tell of what its durability factor is? |
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Joe, I'm a bit surprised you bought one of these. I guess someone had to figure out if it was worth the money. Kind of neat that you have three different sized machines now, and interesting that it is a little larger then then the Stahl.
On that brushless motor sounding weak, or slow, it sure acts like it's short on power, especially on your outdoor video. Seems the cycle times of the cylinders is really slow on that one too. The indoor video, not so much, but in both cases, one can certainly hear the motor lug down when the hydraulic oil is going over the relief valve. I see a really thin wire coming out the back of the mode, on the outdoor video. Can't be an external power supply wire, could it? It looks to small. Antenna wire? On your basement video, I seem to hear the motor getting slower and slower, as the video progresses. Just curious if the battery was going dead? I never saw the lights dim.... It looks like it's capable, but sounds horrible, and weak. Not a bad looking model model though. The detail is pretty reasonable and it looks scale, though I don't know what machine it's based off of. |
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Hello Joe ,
Why I am not surprised that you are the first one of us here having one of these , ha . I haven’t messed with model-hydraulics ( not yet ! ) , but that weird loud noise , besides that it seams like that the pump is working hard , is probably a result of to much play in the internal components of the motor and pump . Precision is what costs money , therefore I am assuming they used relative large tolerances in manufacturing of these pumps . To tide tolerances would make it sees up after a while , to large tolerance just make everything more loose , therefore more noise . That would be my guess on that . As for damage via the leaked out oil to the electronics , oil is an electrical insulator , therefore I doubt that you did get any damage out of that , except of the chemistry of that particular hydraulic oil. I came across some ball-bearings from China which had a grease-filling which eat up plastic ! You may could see over time that some plastics or rubber get damaged , which again I doubt , since hydraulic components hold all kind a seals and such made out of plastics and rubber , would be kind a dumb having a hydraulic-oil with such damaging ingredients ?! |
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Hey Joe, after playing with an esc, for pump control on the 850, would that help the HK excavator out any? As for the outdoor video with the cable, I'm wondering if voltage drop throught the cable made it sound slow? Thank's for sharing!
Later, Neil#2 aka doodlebug. |
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I know Leimbach recommanded to run new pumps without pressure and on low RPM for some hours, increasing step by step up to the nominal, and then change oil before using them at full power.
The purpose was to allow the gears and casing to self-adjust together gently (sorry, can't find the english translation of the exact word we use in french for that operation...:()..... |
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Yeah well, I was curious too to see what this new model on the market was like and an excavator is my favorite model to operate. :D
In the basement vid I had a 4amp NiMH pack in it. It was fully charged when I started and after loading that trk twice it was dead! The vid is the 2nd load. Much too fast of a kill rate. The 850, that pack will last about 25 mins of tough digging. Outside vid, it was really cool temp this morning, model sat out there about twenty minutes before I started using it... can't see the oil thicking up that much in that short of time. The cord hanging out the back goes to a car battery, it's 18guage wire, I've used this small guage wire for yrs with the stahl hoe & it worked fine for the 850 as well. I checked the batt voltage, it was about 12.3v, a little low. Tonite however, I made a new power cord from 14guage wire and that has seem to help, but the wire still getting warm after ten minutes or so of the pump running continuous thru the relief valve. This brushless motor is about the same size as my 850, but the plumbing is the same size as the Stahl... might be too much motor for this hyd system. I see in the radio settings that the EPA for the pump is set @23%. I tried turning it up and the motor stops increasing in rpm @35%, the 18ga power cord would get almost too hot to the touch within mins! Even now with the 14ga power cord, the wires get quite warm, but not hot. I've left the EPA setting at 24%. and the 14ga has only a little bit of warmth to it. Neil, I've been monkeying with the P-Mix settings in the tx, but I can't get it to work... don't know what's wrong there. :confused: It's a bit different than the DX8, as in a couple extra settings: offset, uprate, downrate. I've tried changing these values one way and the other to no avail. :confused: And the manual (translated from chinese) doesn't offer any insight as to what these values will do. I guess if oil were a bad thing, something would blown up by now, eh Willy? :D Thanx for the insight. Although, I've had leaky Leimbach pumps seeping oil into the electric brushed motor which causes it to labor for a short time till the oil burns out of it. Papy, I did not know Leimbach had this recommendation for "break-in" (probably the word you're looking for?). But I did use a 7.2v batt during 1st time start up to fill the Leimbach hyd system to keep the oil foaming/air bubbles to a minimum while cycling the cylinders. As I sit here typing/thinking about my pump motor problems, I'm thinking maybe this brushless motor is just a little too big for this hyd system. Back off the EPA to 22%, maybe decrease the relief psi a bit... more experimenting to do to get it to run efficeintly without killing packs so fast or cooking the power cord from a car battery. ;) |
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Joe, I applaud you for taking a chance on this purchase! You have so much experience with hydraulic construction equipment that I believe you made an educated guess from the photos and info that the gamble wasn't too big.
It seems to run quite well. The very high pitched sound to the motor/pump concerns me the most. It could either be a bad bearing or the magnets in the brushless motor are touching the armature. |
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Nice video Joe, You manage to make that operate very smoothly. What comes to mind with the motor straining is the pressure relief valve is set too high or there's a restriction on the return line? I notice it cycling slowly and that could either be too small GPM pump or a restriction. The noise, air cavitation? On my pressure washer I'm experiencing a similar problem,possibly the relief valve sticking due to rust particles getting caught inline. I have no experience with these model hydraulics but hope someday to graduate into one.
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This recommendation was not written in any operating manual. I read something about that on a german forum and then asked directly to Leimbach about this process. Doing that, I have been able to operate [intensively :D] a Leimbach pump at 18 bars (260 psi) for ten years before it breaks. Using a 7.2 V battery for a while may produce the same effect......... |
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Joe. The excavator looks great and I'm glad see the first one in use. This pump trouble your having is from lack of amperage to the motor. Brushless motors are power hogs and realy don't care so much about voltage but require lots of amps. The esc on that thing will handle 125 amp and the max you can carry on 14 Ga. wire is 15 so it's starving the motor big time. If you really want to see it perform try using a set of jumper cables and you'll be able to dig in solid rock. The info for the model looks like it needs a 6500 ma 11.1 volt lipo battery. Just trying to help before you may hurt the motor.
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Hey Joe, you are way ahead of me on radio's now! Still learning.
Rob, thank's for the short lesson on brushless motor's, No idea about those at all. Gotta get past the standard rs 540 motor's, LOL! I'm looking forward to finding out the pro's & con's of the HK hoe. Thank's for sharing! Later, Neil#2 aka doodlebug. |
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Wow Joe ,
You are cooking 14 ga wire with that beast ? That is some serious amp-draw for a R/C model ! A 14 ga wire carries safe up to 30 amps ( not just 15 ) A 12 gauge wire is rated for about 40 amps But no matter 20/30 or 40 amps , you are here in a range of a “nuclear meltdown” If you create a short ! you better watch out handling these kind a loads ! If that included ESC is rated for 125 amps I would guess that the motor pulls like 50 amps , which would explain your wire-cooking . Also explains why they recommend a 6500mah battery , ( which would last only for about 15 minutes if that motor really pulls 50 amps ) that is some serious power , **** you could jump-start a real car with that ! You usually only find this in serious R/C racing . If you don’t have an amp meter do this : Instead using a car-battery , which supplies some serious amp-rating , Use a few of your NI-CD or NI-MH batteries , wire them in parallel to get a higher amp-rating and then measure the time you can run that beast . Example : 4x 2000 mah batterys = 8000 mah capacity , you are running for 20 minutes = 8000:20=4000mah= 40 amps ! about the wire-cooking and amp-rating , the wire-length is also a factor , that’s why in serious R/C racing you keep all your wiring as short as possible , since in most cases the wire-size is actually undersized for the actual amp-draw of the motors. You should use some fuses in your wiring for all this testing . You could use some ordinary house-wring fuses . Best would be the standard automatic fuses , the once you can reset , or also called circuit breakers. Start out with a 16 or 20 amp and if it pops right away get the next bigger one . That would be also a simple way of testing the actual amp-draw . I just looked at the specs of that motor ( after I already typed all the above ) · Rotational speed: 380 (kv) RPM/volt · Input voltage: 11.1-29.6V · Max efficiency: 98% · Custom cut shaft or Earth Digger · Continous current: 80A · Warrenty period: 30 days That is one weird designed brushless motor ! Amp-draw 80 amps , but only 380 rpm’s per volt ? at 12 volt that would be about 4500/rpms ….??? but an 960 Watt motor ( at 12 volts ) ?? A higher rpm motor with a gear-reduction would be here a much more efficient setup . Assuming that these above motor specs are correct What rpm motors do the other guys supply ? like Stahl and Leimbach Makes me almost get one of these beasts and check it all out , lol |
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10 gauge wire would be a safer bet for 30 amps continous draw. Yes, some smaller sized wires can handle current spikes, (like motor start up) but it's not intended for continuous draw. 12 gauge wire is normally considered safe for 20 amps, but I see the bigger concern here being the fact that the tethered wire, from the power supply, is long. With 14 gauge wire, and a long run length, the motor is starved for power. 14 gauge is maybe good for 15 amps, but normally, more like 10 amps. The longer the wire run, the more resistance and voltage and current drop you have.
I have a hard time believing the brushless motor draws 80 amps continuous. That is quite an unreasonable amount of current to just turn a pump. A 6500 mili-amp pack would be dead in less then 5 mins, not to mention the battery would probably be destroyed. The motor might very well be rated to run at up to 80 amps continuous, but it probably does not. More likely that marketing likes to use that as a measure of power, saying their motor is pretty hot stuff, compared to what else is out there. 380 Kv is not so odd. It's an out-runner motor (the can spins with the motor shaft), and they typically run lower RPMs, but are better known for their torque and power, vs. an in-runner design. |
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and yes about the marketing , something can't be right with these numbers , besides the fact that it's pulling current like **** if Joe uses 14 gauge wire to heat his backyard . |
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Yes, but look at the input voltage. 11.1-29.6 volts. That's pretty normal for an out-runner designed for airplanes or helis. They swing a pretty big prop, or spin the rotor head, usually on 6S Lipo packs. And that's not a small helicopter model either. Almost a .50 nitro sized bird. No doubt that's where the 80 amp current rating comes from. My guess is they sized the motor wrong for the application. At 11.1 volts, the motor isn't at it's most efficient operation, and it's doggy. Probably running less RPM then the Vario out-runner pump motor, at the same voltage.
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Different motor definitely would be the right way to go . Maybe Joe should install some Heli-blades and send this in to RC4WD as an recommendation for an upgrade / conversion , Lol Found this link here on a German forum , ( with photos ) http://www.modelltruckforum.com/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=24282&pageNo=2&high light=earth+digger But so far no posts about any issues or this power/motor/battery question , just the usual bla-bla about a new toy ….. There is a Hong Kong seller selling them on German ebay , Sold a few and some wrote feedbacks , one also complaint about not enough hydraulic oil , wonder if he experienced the same leaking like Joe . Searched around some and a little surprised not to find more threads on this model ..??..... |
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I don't think there is anything wrong with the motor/pump Scott, I'm starting to think that this choice of brushless motor is to coincide with 3s lipo with a nominal voltage less than 12 most of the time.
And you're right as well Steve, the pressure is set much too high! If I hook anything solid with the bucket while drawing the stick towards the cab, the whole model will slide forward instantly without hesitation. This model doesn't have the gvw to handle that kind pressure. I haven't monkeyed with the pressure relief yet, not alot of time for play this wk thus far. I don't know how using jumper cables would be of any benifit Rob? it's 14ga wire coming out of the esc. Nathan, Willy; all good info, thanx. It was the 18ga power cord that was cooking and that happened very quickly after increasing the EPA from 23% to 30% (increased motor rpm). Having the EPA even at 25% was making the 14ga wire warm. Currently I have it set to 20% and that seems to make the pump run plenty fast & the 14ga wire remains cool. I have an inline fuse on this power cord with a 20amp rating, it never blew with the 18ga, but the plastic housing got so hot that it started to melt & broke connection with the model. I shut the pump off & held the inline fuse holder by hand to keep its shape till it cooled. It still works. :D I used the model for a few hrs intermediantly this morning, it worked fine with the 20% EPA on the car battery. Perhaps on Sunday I'll have some time to figure out how to implement a press guage to see what its really putting out & then adjust it lower for a more feasible operating manor. Currently, once the pump runs for a minute or so, the flow volume gets pretty quick and makes the hoe somewhat jerky to operate b/c the cyls cylce so quick! Definitely need less pressure. The way it's set might be fine for 3s lipo, but much too high for 13v car battery. |
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Looking forward to hearing more about this model as ive been waiting for somthing around this price range for a long time.
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Thank you for your kind words Dustin, I'll try my best to accurately inform on this model. So far I like what I see... here shortly, I'm gonna tinker with the pressure to lower it for better performance.
I don't have a scale to weight it... I used a block & a board as a balance beam, putting my Stahl equally on the other side, as I already know it's 22lbs & some... the HK hoe tip the beam easily, so I'd guess its 30lbs+. And I'm not real clear on what measurement you're asking... I measured from the idlers (cab facing the idlers) to the back of the counterweight = 430mm I don't know how a Bruder hoe's body would compare with either model, never seen one in person. |
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so joe so far would you say it is a good machine for the money iknow it is early days im just thinking of getting one or a track loader just cant decide:D
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I can count 5 in this picture, two more and you'll have one for every day of the week! :D I'm only jealous! Elliot |
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The Stahl Liebherr (lower left), I was using it a month ago & the lower boom broke in half. The Stahl Cat (right), the 1st ever hoe I had is eleven yrs old, the pump/valves & undercarriage continue to work work properly, but everything else is pretty well shot! I haven't use it in ... a yr or more? I've gotten my money's worth out of those two and now I'm working on wearing out these other three in the coming yrs. :D
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Hey Joe, I watched rc4wd's video on youtube the other day, and there pump sound's a lot mellower, like it's turned down. Anybody else noticed that???????
Later, Neil#2 aka doodlebug http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBy2Y...layer_embedded |
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Looking forward to more feedback from this excavator as the price is very resonable
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With the super brights on the RC4WD 360, you could use these to illuminate the basement when videoing other equipment! :p Keep up the good work Joe. |
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Sounds about the same to me Neil... although some of the differences could be that that vid is outside, the camera could be quite a ways away from the model & perhaps the mic on my camera is just more sensitive. And also, I'm running my pump on 13.5v car batt, whereas that one is likely 3s lipo @10.5 to 12.6v, making the motor rpm slower -sounds softer.
My pump runs alot smoother many minutes after initial start up... the vid in the basement, that was pretty much the 1st couple minutes of my use with it ever. Now, when I start the pump out cold, I raise the tx's EPA to 22 or 23%. By one, maybe two trk loads later, I have it set back to 19% & that's where I continue use it at... seems to be the right amount of speed & power for me. I tinkered with the relief valve, didn't have the correct fittings to tie my guage into the system however, so I don't know exactly where I'm at, but it's definitely lower than it was. Its still a bit high though. The pressure relief on this is rather mickey mouse... its a large, free moving allen screw with a short, 1/4 inch long, very stiff coil spring! Just guessing here, with just a very minute turn of the allen screw, the pressure could jump 5-10bar -> the spring is that stiff! I need to do some shopping around for a compression spring of similar diameter, but much softer tension so I can get a much finer resolution with the presure setting. Yeah, the lights are pretty bright on this hoe Elliot. I thought the basement vid looked pretty cool using the lights... and the basement lights were on too! :D More vids to come later... kinda busy right now & getting busier everyday. |
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