Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Recently purchased a Stahl Loader , my first piece of rc equipment, from a great member of the board. It operated great although i didnt like a few things about it and decided to tear into it to learn how it works and fix a few things at the same time. Its turned into a slight redesign since i started. So heres some pics of where im at so far.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-A...0+16.55.40.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-B...0+17.08.57.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8...0+17.39.08.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-E...0+17.39.38.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-E...0+17.39.50.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-t...0+19.50.58.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-y...0+19.52.06.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-w...0+20.19.25.jpg

Digging for screws..at this point im pretty sure im not using these parts again.. :rolleyes:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-I...0+20.47.33.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-u...0+20.53.17.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-a...0+20.57.29.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-G...0+21.09.06.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-E...0+21.24.20.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-l...1+12.28.27.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-r...2+11.13.19.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-o...3+12.57.44.jpg

Blasted some parts

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-a...1+20.24.09.jpg

Cutting some new arms from 3/16" plate. Added 1/2" to front length to raise the bucket height a little.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-P...3+13.32.21.jpg

Plasma cutter, my favorite tool. Free hand cuts.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-v...3+13.35.03.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-l...3+13.53.10.jpg

Dusted both sides of the arms to get them flat.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-d...3+14.55.06.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-i...3+14.57.30.jpg

Making the front axle mount. Made it from round stock so i could bore the ID to contour the Diff.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-r...3+15.36.35.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-5...3+21.44.47.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-B...4+12.54.11.jpg

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Wow, nice job man!

I bet this will turn out to be a great thread, keep it up! :)

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Very nice Jason! I'll be watching this one for sure! Glad you picked this machine up, when it was listed for sale. I'm really looking forward to seeing you rebuild it. The Stahl WA500s are nice machines. To be really perfect and scale models, I think they just need a little massaging. Just a few extras here and there. What else do you have planned for it, in terms of detail parts? You've got a heck of a machine shop at your disposal. Surface grinder and all!

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Thank you!

Id actually be open to suggestions for details to add...I guess i do have a few things id like to do...Maybe fenders for the rear. I may rebuild the steps and platforms, these are falling apart. Replacing the blue glass with clear lexan and make a new counter weight from a solid steel block...Oh want to make a new radiator grill, maybe something from black screen..? Want a quick release too! But havent found any info yet on how to make one of those. Make a hub cap with a new wheel face which is more scale looking...but i dont think our indexing chuck for the mill is any good..havent looked at it in years. We have 10 cnc turret lathes that could do that but they are all running high production jobs and rarely have any open time. I may have to draw something up and just tell the set up guy next time to" make this".. Oh and gonna print out a driver..too bad i dont have a scanner, Id scan myself and make ME the driver. :)

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Very cool, Jason. While you're at it, you should basically re-make the entire main chassis out of steel. More weight, more traction. :D As for the details, just look at the real WA500 loaders and add what you see. Mirrors, light buckets coming off the frame area where the loader arm pivot bushings are, and nicer hand rails. That rear grille could use some detail too. Don't forget the windshield wiper! Any place to can get rid of the scew heads, definitely consider it. Nothing ruins a scale model like phillips head screws sticking out of a sheet metal body, where there shouldn't be any visible. Weld things together instead. It almost looks like you already made the front half of the chassis out of steel and welded it?

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Gosh!! the tools & the knowledge you have at your disposal, I'm envious. :)

I see you traced some extra arms, were they meant for me too?! :D The added 1/2" length will changed the geometry of the bucket rotation... you'll cross that bridge when you get to it?

I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with for functional improvements. ;) :) :cool:

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Nate, Exactly my thoughts too on the phillips heads lol. And thats what i did. Welded the front end from inside. The light buckets and mirrors are a good idea..Didnt even think about that and wiper too :) But did consider remaking the rest of the chassis out of steel as well..Why not? should be alot easier than the front half. And already its putting on some weight. Heres a few more pics. Scale bolts for the front hatch plate= Cool! Need more of that going on. And Stainless cross supports for the pivot points.. Thanks for commenting!

Joe, Thanks. haha, those extras were my practice pcs. Needed to get my stance and hands working together.. Machine shops have been the family business since my grandfather started it when he was my age. All the manual machines I use are just for our little fab area. Our main business is CNC Grinding.
I thought about that. It shouldnt be a big deal to adjust the geometry. I think its all in the length of the connecting rod for the bucket tilt. Yes ill deal with that in a short while hopefully.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-o...4+19.11.30.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-V...4+19.16.35.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-r...4+19.17.03.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-M...4+19.15.50.jpg

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Awesome job! I'm just not sure why you spent the money on that loader when you clearly could have (and basically are) scratch building one:confused:? Anyway, I love the work you're doing! Keep it up and keep us posted!

Reg

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Man, that's awesome Jason! You'll pretty much have a brand new loader when you are done. It looks like you could have bought the gear motors, the hydraulics, and wheels, then built everything else yourself. You definitely have the talent!

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Reg, Nate- Thanks guys, Yes i agree and your right.. but this being my first machine. I wouldnt know where to start. I never even seen one up close till i got this one. im good at copying something...Not good at making up designs without seeing it first..BUT i think im sure i can scratch build my next model and i have been thinking about what size Dozer i want to build. Only hard part about that would be the tracks..Again if i had a track peice to examine i could copy it. I have made plastic track parts with my Printer. I might have to visit the CNC machinist down the street for that. The rest is very doable after attempting this. I look at the cost i spent on this to have been also part of the learning process... Anyone want to buy a used wa500 chassis? lol Thanks for the nice comments.

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Yeah, I saw the business name at the bottom of your email weeks ago & looked it up. ;) Quite an occupation you have going on there... you a jack of trades in that shop? owner/operator too?

You sure did a mighty fine job of cutting & shaping that metal. :cool:

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Jason, my thoughts exactly, and once you see just what exactly you are getting, when you buy a model like this, it begs the question, are they really worth the cost? Some of the more detailed models might be. Some just seem so simple, with what amounts to stamped aluminum sheets, bolted together, it's hard to justify the asking price. But for those of us who don't have the talent, or tools, to scratchbuild our own, we can't complain to much! :D

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Joe, I have my own shop on the end of the building were I do all the repairs, and fab/ welding for the rest of the shop, whatever to keep the business rolling. Theres always something needing fixed or made. And in tge past few years we have started to focus on automation so that is good practice for scratch building and it requires all the essential tools for making stuff. i dont have much programming experince but i like the change of pace doing everything else.My father is the founder and my brother and I are co owners. I don't run a machine any more, not for ten years now. I'm glad we grew to the point were we hire operators to run the high pro machines. I can't stand in the same place all day long.

Nate, I know right? Stamped aluminum sheet screwed together.... Can you imagine my surprise when first getting a look at this loader? Lol. I immediately thought what you just said. ! But I'd have to say this is a rather complex model..? Maybe not as intricate as an excavator but its got some engineering into it. Just needs more meat on it. So that's what I'm doing. I originally didn't set out to scratch build a loader.. But after seeing this one I knew I could improve it and the Bondo wasn't sitting well with me, there's no way to take this apart easily to fix something if I had left it. And maybe ill add some value to it by doing this. It's fun tho..the building part. I think I enjoy that more than actually driving it... Well that's to be determined yet.. I think I finally found an interest in something( rc construction) that will keep me interested. Glad I found this board too. Wish I could have learned the basics from the original garden trucking board. This board seems to be the next level where maybe a lot of basics have been left on the old board. But still the best place to currently be.

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Nice work! This will be really cool.

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

So, JDH,

After you've basically replicated it to your own machined specs, what you going to do with the original? Re-assemble it and sell it? Or re-assemble it and shelf-queen it?

Just curious. I doubt I'll ever be able to afford one of these hydraulics, besty I could afford would be one of the styrene/electric ones, for show, not work.

Will enjoy the rebuild, and wishing I had access to such a shop. I like DIY.

WhiteWolf

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

It's not STAMPED aluminum, it has been milled, cut & bent precisely so when everything is put together it's symetrical & runs true... plus all the R&D to get it to this point of a proven working concept.

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Joe, no offense, but I don't think either one of us could say we know for sure. :D The thicker components of the WA500 probably are CNC machined, but I would also wager that the thinner components are stamped. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Stamping yields high quality parts, held to tight and accurate tolerances too. Don't think of it as a knock on the quality of the model. The axle mounting brackets for the front axle, the cylinder mounts for the bucket cylinder, the front fenders, the c-channel bracket that the steering cylinders bolt to, the hood, the rock bucket components, and many of the cab parts could have been stamped. Progressive dies can cut, punch holes, and form small parts like these, and do so accurately. I'd almost guarantee you that many of those smaller parts could not be formed with a brake press. The bends would be to close together for the tooling. For a stamping die, it would be a cake walk. You should see what a progressive stamping die can make. You'd be surprised.

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

those cab panels.... nice alignment! was it user error from somewhere in its life or is that how these fit together?

thats some precise plasma cutting. i love seeing all that talent people have come to light. forces me to keep practicing ';0

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Very nice thread. You got some good skills my friend. I can't wait to see the finished machine.

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Nice work Jason !
So first you show us your talents with a 3D printer and how well you work with plastic and meanwhile.... Your a master of metal too! :eek::cool::)

To say this loader found a good home is wrong:confused:
This loader has found the RIGHT home for sure! :D

Mario

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

What can be said that hasn't? Awesome job, great save!

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Rctech, thank you

Whitewolf, I'm using some of the original parts so I wouldn't have everything to reassemble the original for use. Not sure what ill do with the left overs.

Nate, Some milling has been done to certain areas of the plate mostly on the radiuses to help make the bend.. Like the curved section on the upper rear of the front half. I do also think some flat plates could have been stamped but don't know for certain. I would think to cut costs in manufacturing the possibility is high. And to bend all the angled plate for the kit by hand seems unlikely and more probable that progressive stamping would be the typical method of manufacturing.

CDM, the original assemble may have been rushed... I def would have done some things differently.

Morockn, thank you pal. I'm anxious too. I hope it comes back together nice.

Mario, thank you! Very cool to read that. I'm enjoying each little project that all come together to finish this build. I'm no master :) but appreciate the comments and support, I just happen to be familiar with the process and machines used here. I am lucky to have such a nice shop. It's cool when I can use the tools for a fun project like this.

Claus, a save indeed! Thanks for commenting, very appreciated!

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

A little progress...literally.


Stainless.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7...5+16.33.19.jpg

Heres the first set i was working on that i screwed up later...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-E...5+18.44.01.jpg

And the second time around..


https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-K...6+14.20.51.jpg

And heres a little trick for rounding the edges and getting them close by hand.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-w...6+15.21.30.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9...6+15.25.55.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-L...6+15.26.33.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-j...6+15.34.59.jpg

Gonne make some brass bushings yet.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4...6+15.52.18.jpg

I had mentioned earlier about making new hub caps that look more prototypical. I designed this and printed it out to see how it looks. It will replace the small yellow cap. Im gonna try to get into the cnc lathe soon, but no rush...still have a way to go before ill need these.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-C...6+15.37.28.jpg



Anyone have a suggestion for these bearings? I priced them out from BDI and their 40.00 ea....

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-n...6+16.32.34.jpg

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

What is their size?

Cheers,
AP

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Your rebuild is great.
What about rollor blade bearing, not sure if they will be the right size though

Greg

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

What a makeover! You're indeed making the machine 100% better IMO. It'll definitely be a much more rugged model. Nice to see your machining skills too. Great job and display of talents.

Ben

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

flanged abec3 or 5 would be my choice.. ~5-15$ each for most rc sizes.

i have always freehanded the edge curves but thats a great way for when you need it precisely with no room to regrind. thanks for sharing

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Great progress! Always nice to see pics from the process of making the parts, keep em pics coming! :)

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

I just cannot stop looking at your updates, if you keep posting pictures like this then I'm never gonna get any of my machines finished. So much goodness.

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Seeing the way you are with the average metal parts, the only thing I can see either you not being able to replicate, or not being willing to take a stab at, is the hydraulics, and any odd assemblies.

I'd be happy with her paint-stripped, w/o any of the hydraulics, and even un-assembled, if you (or someone else) were willing to assist with re-assembly. I assume a perfectionist like you is going to strip all those layers of accumulated paint off her before you even consider re-assembly, and a bared beast, less a few pieces, that I could tackle.

Let me know if thats amenable... and I'm still admiring the metal-smithing.

WhiteWolf

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

JDH429 you are doing a fantastic job on the rebuild, keep up the good work.

Travis

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Nathan the Stahl parts are CNC cut not stamped. What Joe was saying is that Stahl milled relief cuts into the panels to force them to bend where he wanted them to. In the pics below look at the corners and you will see that the parts were milled about half way through where the bends are. He made the cylinder protectors the same way on the blade and even the hinges for the doors. Both my loader and dozer are made this way.

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps1c83516e.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/s...psf32e35b4.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/s...psa87fd90c.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/s...psacadcf73.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps9a5c23ae.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/s...pse6783e5e.jpg

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps104685e9.jpg

Travis

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Travis, thanks for information and photos. I guess I'll eat some crow. Pass the ketchup! :)

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Thanks fellas for the comments. That bearing is a 12mm, same one found in a KH kit. Wow, look how crisp those parts that Travis posted pics of are....drool..

Heres a few more pics for you, Azonic, and Morock.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-M...7+14.28.24.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-G...7+13.57.25.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-3...7+14.02.45.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-B...8+07.51.13.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-t...8+08.37.39.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-W...8+08.58.49.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7...8+09.16.57.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-w...8+09.23.23.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-w...8+09.48.05.jpg

2 hrs later.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-a...8+12.07.18.jpg

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Very nice work. You will have one awesome loader when complete!

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Your center pin joint look like it is going to be very strong! Wish I could do stuff like that.

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Again, superb job, looks like a clean and sweet shop! Thx for the pics! :)

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Small, Thank you, I hope so.

Azonic, Thank you! Our building is still fairly new. About 5 years old so it is pretty clean compared to our last building which was 3x smaller and filthy as ****...Couldnt walk in the building without getting dirty.

Claus, Thank you. I wish my brain was very strong....

After comparing my new center section to the old I realized i screwed up a dimension by .260" which is the thickness of the bearing holder :eek:...So i figured instead of remaking the whole thing i cut it in half and milled the difference to bring the bearing retainers closer together where they needed to be:D...I unfortunately have plenty of those moments..But i think it will work out ok. 4-3mm screws per half attach the center section to the front end. Its still plenty strong and all my holes on the front end are tapped 3mm 0.5..no nuts to screw with this time.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-G...8+14.37.21.jpg

Front end pile

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-b...8+14.37.00.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0...8+16.16.56.jpg

Re: Wa 500 Rebuild
 

Mario, you hit the nail right on the head, no doubt this machine ended up in the right hands.

Jason,

All I can say is WOW!

Your skills are truly amazing, it seems there is nothing you can't do, and do well. Increadable.