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Get it out of your system! HERE! You have a gripe,bone to pick, Tamiya vs Wedico or just have to let it out! THIS IS THE ONLY PLACE TO DO IT!


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  #1  
Old 06-24-2015, 05:28 PM
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Supermario Supermario is offline
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Default DEF fluid in heavy equipment !!

I couldn't decide if I should post in general discussions or here but nobody has anything good to say about DPF's , regen and all that stuff so I think this is the right place.
i don't work on trucks, I'm all heavy equipment and have only seen the second generation or tier 4 interm systems like on this 336E excavator which is built like a module and easy to remove in one big chunk. Heck, atleast you see the engine!





But the other day a brand new 140M grader rolled in the yard. (Going out for sales demo).






I figured I'd take a peak. My heart skipped and I thought , oh no when I saw this.....



Then I made the mistake of opening the engine compartment doors I think there's a motor in there somewhere





So now you know why I posted this here. am I ever glad I'm at the tail end of my career on the shop floor. I pity the new up and coming young guys.
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Old 06-24-2015, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: DEF fluid in heavy equipment !!

Your lucky Mario I've been dealing with it since '07!
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Old 06-24-2015, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: DEF fluid in heavy equipment !!

Can the DEF system be removed by the owner after warranty, without any negative effects?

David
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Old 06-24-2015, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: DEF fluid in heavy equipment !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigo View Post
Can the DEF system be removed by the owner after warranty, without any negative effects?

David
No, due to the computers it will cause the engines to shut down. There are ways to cheat the system but usually its a temporary thing.
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Old 06-24-2015, 10:05 PM
1strodeo 1strodeo is offline
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Default Re: DEF fluid in heavy equipment !!

They even have it on diesel forklifts. They come standard on everything now
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Old 06-25-2015, 11:36 AM
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Default Re: DEF fluid in heavy equipment !!

I'm a technical instructor for the Komatsu distributor in Kentucky and Indiana. Tier 4 Final (with DPF and DEF) has been standard on most new machines for over a year. Actually, we have found the Final versions to be less troublesome than the Interim engines. BUT, customer acceptance and willingness to learn the newly-required maintenance and upkeep continues to be a real headache. Some operators keep pushing the "Delay Regeneration" button until the DPF is so clogged it can't regen. They think if they ignore it, it will go away.

Shoe-horning all the "stuff" under the hood of loaders, excavators, trucks, dozers, graders, etc., reminds me of what we do with our models. Some machines have gotten bigger hoods just to get everything inside.

It's here, and we are stuck with it! I heard Europe is considering a Tier 5 engine and the US wants to reduce diesel fuel consumption. Estimates are $12,000 to $15,000 more per engine to get where the Feds want to go.

Have a great day!

Ken
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Old 06-26-2015, 09:57 PM
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Default Re: DEF fluid in heavy equipment !!

That's a good point Kent. It is just like stuffing all our gear in the RC's.

It's when I see something as simple as a valve set turns into a major tear down to accomplish......sorry, it's the old school in me .
The first tier 4 final I saw was a 980 about a year ago. So far so good because none of the ones in our neighbourhood has been in the shop. So far, feild service is able to deal with them.
This is the first grader I've seen. Everything so tight and awkward.....reminds me of underground equipment!!

Getting customers up to speed will definitely be a challenge. It reminds me of the change in hydraulic systems. When tolerances became tighter, orfices and resolvers became smaller and yet nobody cared about getting dirt in a system. Heck, you could pour sand in a D8K hydraulic tank and never know it, what's different now?
So much self inflicted abuse on equipment due to not keeping the dirt out then, as we will see with the new way of doing things today.

That's my rant.... I'm done
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Old 06-27-2015, 02:22 AM
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Default Re: DEF fluid in heavy equipment !!

Tier 4 NH combine last yr... had to quit early twice last yr b/c of a def glitch that put engine into limp mode, then loose two hrs 1st thing in the morning while mechanic does a computer flush... and then there's the 210L def barrel to pack around in the fuel trk... worst of all my fuel consumption has gone up about 10 - 15%, burn 1.15L of fuel to lower ppm per 1 L... insanity!
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Old 06-30-2015, 02:30 PM
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Default Re: DEF fluid in heavy equipment !!

Your right Joe, it's crazy. The focus use to be on conserving fuel and being more efficient. Now it's all about the atmosphere and environment, the heck with fuel burned as machines temporarily turn into incinerators, use massive amounts of fuel to clean up the crap stuck in a filter trying to save the atmosphere?
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Old 06-30-2015, 02:56 PM
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Default Re: DEF fluid in heavy equipment !!

1952 John Deere Detroit diesel crawler loader, 1985 Ford LT9000 big cam cummins dump truck, 1997 New Holland 865 Skid steer, 2007 John deere 3203 utility tractor, 2005 Ford powerstroke, all non-def/dpf. The only diesel I have that has that crap is my 2013 VW Passat TDI. With a little care, I hope they will last me for the rest of my life so i will not have to upgrade or down grade...
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Old 06-30-2015, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: DEF fluid in heavy equipment !!

Mario, you are so right about the old iron. Before 1996, off-road diesel fuel filters were 40 micron, then changed to 15 and when Tier 2 engines came out in late '90s, then went to 2 micron. We had more problems with filters clogging from fuel gotten from worksite tanks than any problems the engines had. Old hydraulic systems could eat a bunch of dirt and not be a problem. But as pressures went above 5000 psi and piston pumps became the norm, we saw all kinds of failures due to contamination. Yes, the new systems are more efficient and easier to operate, BUT they are horribly expensive and will not tolerate a bit of gunk in them. Guess that will keep the service departments busy for a long time!

Ken
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Old 06-30-2015, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: DEF fluid in heavy equipment !!

It's horrible Mario I deal with it daily, and our brand new 950 wheel loader has had the cat tech at our shop at least 5 times in the first year for the dosing nozzle screen of the system getting clogged with debris and the loader will not regen and it derates power and etc..... Our new peterbilts showed up with check engine lights and still till this day the dealer can't get them to stay off. Everything we have with regen systems are horrible. Makes me not wanna be a mechanic since they allow pencil pushing politicians and legislatures decide how our equipment "should" be. They know nothing and mechanically understand less then nothing. When the peterbilt dealer held a local Q&A for all the dissatisfied customers and they're basic jist of the meeting to us customers was "bare with us, we are trying to get it right"....u know this are horribly wrong.
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Old 07-01-2015, 01:05 AM
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Default Re: DEF fluid in heavy equipment !!

And the Cummins rep kept telling me, "We have to do our part". Well, going broke with garbage that nobody can fix, is not part of my game plan.
Blank the tree huggers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!
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Old 07-01-2015, 02:01 AM
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Default Re: DEF fluid in heavy equipment !!

I've been casually shopping for a 35mt track hoe for the last yr, some Ritchie Bros auctions lately have had some 10 to 15,000hr JD350's on the lots & to my surprise the hoes have been selling in the $50 - 80k range... I would have thought equipment would have gotten cheaper by now with the $barrel of oil so low for the last yr, the patch has almost come to a halt in my area! But it's likely the contractors are trying to avoid buying new tier 4 garbage.

8 - 15yo trucks are going the same way, selling for more than double what they should be b/c tier 4 emissions is crap right off the lot!
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Old 07-01-2015, 07:43 AM
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Default Re: DEF fluid in heavy equipment !!

From a non 1-1 truck guy only 1/14 what is DEF fluid supposed to do , nobody here can seem to tell just u are to use it . Li'l giants my friend in town who has about 40 heavy equipment trucks keeps buying used engines and sending them out to be rebuilt . He has also complained about the price of used equipment . He also told me that the 4 companies making DEF are all owned by one senator in the U.S. . MIKE
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Old 07-01-2015, 09:05 AM
1strodeo 1strodeo is offline
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Default Re: DEF fluid in heavy equipment !!

This is a brief explanation thats in a powerpoint presentation I have on it :

SCR works by injecting a very precise amount of DEF into the vehicle’s hot exhaust stream where the urea is converted into ammonia.
Once inside the SCR catalyst, the ammonia gas forms a chemical reaction with the NOx emitted by the engine.
As a result of this chemical reaction, SCR converts NOx into water vapor and harmless nitrogen gas.
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:01 PM
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Default Re: DEF fluid in heavy equipment !!

Now that's as clear as the exhaust as I see out of trucks . Not picking on anyone but as I understand it you can drink it and laugh yourself silly ? Mike who has enough trouble with the electronics on a RC truck . Maybe soon I'll be taking my 1945 International A to work !
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Old 07-01-2015, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: DEF fluid in heavy equipment !!

It wouldn't surprise me to hear it was a politician that had a death grip on all the pollution control products, that's just the norm nowadays how those sleezebags make the rules to work in their favor at the expense of the middle class.
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Old 07-01-2015, 09:04 PM
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Default Re: DEF fluid in heavy equipment !!

Sounds about right
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Old 07-04-2015, 10:35 AM
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Default Re: DEF fluid in heavy equipment !!

Mine fell off ( with lots of help) on my 5500 and I picked up 2.5 mpg, our tractors are a nightmare with all the new emission stuff, always codes and derating.
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