Aeromax AWD flat bed.

[Espeefan]

Cool first hand experience Joe. If I'm not mistaken, most 1:1 trucks with solid front axles have the tie rods in front of the axle, but they can still achieve the proper ackerman geometry. I think a lot of solid axle 4x4s are like this.

[mtloperator]

Depends on the application Nate . If the truck it's on is going to be in a severe inviroment where it could get bent easily they'll put it in the rear .

[fhhhstix]

Originally Posted by Lil Giants

And another powered steering axle with the tie rod on the wrong side of the axle!!! ...you guys, do you not peel the tires off in a sharp turn, nor do you notice how it seems to slide more than it carves?

All of mine are this way and I have no problems at all. This one did really well on the test run and the only way to make it turn sharper would be to widen it up as the only thing stopping it is the tires hitting the springs. I don't glue my tires or anything and they stay on just fine it is all in what is inside the tire.

Travis

[woodhog]

Well what ya think of the axles?

[fhhhstix]

Originally Posted by woodhog

Well what ya think of the axles?

Well after some tweaking here and there I took it for a test run and it did really good. The biggest thing would be rims for the front. You can use a round pin drive with stock front rims and you get a lot of turning radius with the same width as a stock front axle. I used a stock Tamiya inside rear rim with an extra bead glued on for super singles. To use the rims I put together I had to shave the steering arms a bit and use thicker hexes to widen it up a bit but I still ended up with the same track width as a stock axle. I did give up some turning ability with the SS but I like the look of them better so I gave up some function for style.

Travis

[fhhhstix]

Here is a pic of the Tamiya TLT axle directly from the Tamiya web site. It is designed to have the tie rod in the front. Any body who has worked with them much knows the TLT does not have much turning ability any way due to the built in stops. If you modify the stops it will turn a little sharper but it starts to bind the axles since Tamiya did not put the pivot point of the shafts in line with the king pins either. But the Integy axles have the pivot in line with the king pins and it has twice as much or more turning capability.



Travis

[Lil Giants]

So is the hilift axle, but they're both wrong with their steering geometry.

I use the tlt's in two of my GL's.



Try doing it with the tie rod behind once and measure the difference in radius of the turn. It's a hassle to raise the tie rod with spacers to clear the bell on the diff & make a wishbone to pivot off the top of the steering knuckle for the steering servo to remain in the stock position.

[fhhhstix]

Like I said I am good with it its not that big of a deal.

Travis

[Lil Giants]

What's that saying "lead a horse to water..."

But now it's becoming "beat a dead horse..", I know, won't mention again

[egronvold]

Nice setup. Does the new axles seems as though/ durable as the Tamiya axles?

[ptebbe]

In this application of small, lightweight, "low mileage" vehilcles where tire-life and turning perfomance are not life-and-death issues, the steering geometry is felt to be "good enough." One tire or the other scrubs a bit and the turn is not as precise as it could be but it's not a big deal.

In order to get the correct Ackerman Geometry with the steering linkage in front of the axle the tie-rod ends must extend out past the king-pin (pivot point.) Thus with the linkage behind the axle you can have angled-in steering arms but in front of the axle they just be toed-out. This puts them actually inside the wheels themselves, which is even more problematic in setting up the steering in our models. So we generally make due with "good enough."

[ptebbe]

Here's the best diagram I could find that shows why the steering arms in front vs in the rear of the axle are angled the way they are. I found this helpful.

[doodlebug]

Hey Joe, have you seen this style of tie rod? see the link for the Sisu steer axle, http://www.marmon-herrington.com/p/b...su/FSDP10S.pdf See page 2.
Cheer's, Neil.

Originally Posted by Lil Giants

So is the hilift axle, but they're both wrong with their steering geometry.

I use the tlt's in two of my GL's.



Try doing it with the tie rod behind once and measure the difference in radius of the turn. It's a hassle to raise the tie rod with spacers to clear the bell on the diff & make a wishbone to pivot off the top of the steering knuckle for the steering servo to remain in the stock position.

[grumpygrady]

morning folks ,
I know that when I had my IHC pick-up aligned they had to put wedges between the axle and the springs to get the caster and camber right ,
lets see caster is tilt of kingpin forwards and backwards and camber is tilt of kingpin inside and outside
this has a bunch to due with setting up the right angles for the Ackerman design
I can find out more and post it on the site if anyone cares
thanks
grumpygrady

[ptebbe]

Lil Giants: this looks like the right setup for correct Ackerman geometry to me. There are 2 challenges here as you mentioned: having the rear steering arm clear the driveshaft and the other is setting up a steering linkage from the original location of the servo (in front of the axle.)

Here a YouTube example of another ingenious solution: using steering arm extenders for a steering linkage in front of the axles. This moves the lever arm outward past the kingpins and into the inside of the wheels for correct geometry. When I look at my truck models the clearance inside the wheels looks very, very tight to do such a setup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9JsMhTA48Q

Originally Posted by Lil Giants

So is the hilift axle, but they're both wrong with their steering geometry.

I use the tlt's in two of my GL's.



Try doing it with the tie rod behind once and measure the difference in radius of the turn. It's a hassle to raise the tie rod with spacers to clear the bell on the diff & make a wishbone to pivot off the top of the steering knuckle for the steering servo to remain in the stock position.

[Lil Giants]

That's a great find on both the sketch & the video ptebe, both explain very clearly how to make a tie rod infront work correctly. Thank you for the edumacation.

[ptebbe]

I hate to beat a dead horse, but this steering geometry issue has intrigued me.

I found this product from Gear Doctor (Germany) which should make it easy to set up correct steering and keep the typical servo location. #20399. This is one of the upgrades to the Tamiya axle that they offer (along with lockable diffs.)

Looks like a good product.

Paul

[fhhhstix]

Here is a small update of the truck with a little paint on it.







Thanks for looking.
Travis

[Tamiya Cowboy]

looking good Travis

[fhhhstix]

Originally Posted by Tamiya Cowboy

looking good Travis

Thanks, I need to work on my picture taking skills though. The truck look so much better in person.

Travis