Hyd Pump - What did I just buy?

[Heavy Metal]

Okay good news and bad news. Fixed the leak around shaft with more compression on the o-ring....but now I see a little seepage in the housing body which I think is just a design error...the raised lip on the plate that seats in the teflon ring pocket needs to be narrower and taller. Sealing the shaft was my main worry and looks like I might have that solved.

Will have to make a new plate this weekend and by then I might have a stronger motor to really test this thing out - the cheapo can motor just won't turn this pump once it gets up to pressure. If the new motor doesn't arrive by the weekend I might have to borrow the motor off my Leimbach pump.

Joe

[Heavy Metal]

Originally Posted by ihbuilder

when you dish out leave the area at the shaft in so it goes against the pump housing at the shaft. I was going to do what you did just have the motor stacked on top of the pump using a timing belt and gears/pulley much like verio's setup.

Actually, Steve that's pretty much what I did...there is only room for two shim washers and the o-ring...that way I add/remove washers to compress/decompress the o-ring. Seems to have worked.

I thought about the vario setup but this was fastest for now...and I didn't have the right belts and pulleys on hand.

Originally Posted by ihbuilder

I just have my rotary setup for hubs and don't want to take the jig off till the cnc mill is running . I def. got a bad sevo amp now just to get 1 or 2 , 1 for the 4th axis

Good luck on the mill. If I get a winner on the plate I'll cut one out for you to play with....anything to keep my wheel order moving up the queue. LOL. But no laughing at my tolerances...now that I am making a few precision parts instead of cosmetic I can't believe all the backlash in the little Taig. Some can be tightened and some compensated for in Mach3...just need to stop milling for an hour or two and do the maintenance.

Joe

[ihbuilder]

ya I smoked 1 of those cans on my vain pump . it worked till I tightened the tolerance on the vain . I'm not sure my vain pump idea is feasible considering what it was used for and the size motor it will need . But these lil pumps have a lot of potential right now I got enough for the dozer , pan and 2 others and looking for more

[Stuff]

sweet!

[Heavy Metal]

Yep...I like what I see with these little pumps so far. And yes...the can motor was burning up...I'd run it for 60 seconds then smells like I let the smoke out so let it cool...try again...I think I've just about killed it already. LOL.

[Heavy Metal]

Thought I'd post a little update on this. Have some good news and bad news on the Idex Micropump.

First the good news...no problem stopping the leaks in the shaft seal or housing. (Steve - I'll fill you in on that w/ PM later...ended up getting square o-rings for housing and quad rings for the shaft off McMaster so had to buy 50 pcs...will send you a handful to play with...they work good).

Now the bad news. I tried my Leimbach 12v motor to run this pump and it pulls a ton of current and doesn't have enough power to spin the pump to proper speed when it's running against the pressure relief - unless you feed it about 8 or 9 amps and even then it labors and never really spins up to a sustainable speed. I knew about this problem in previous posts but was hoping it was because I had the shaft too tight due to compressing the o-ring to seal the leak. So I did a serious of [poorly documented and unphotographed] experiments to see why the same motor that spins a Leimbach pump doesn't have the power to spin this pump. I will spare you the details and say that it ultimately led me back to review the specs for these pumps. Per L.G. Joe in the DIY Pump thread the Leimbach pump is a 350ml/min pump - not sure if that is max at full 10 bar (or is it 15?) but probably so. I didn't verify the 350 ml/min but sounds about right and Joe's numbers have always checked out before. So the Idex model 120 pump is spec'd for about 2000ml/min at 5.5 bar (80 p.s.i.) and the pumps they spec are shown to run 4000 RPM and pull 90 watts which would be 7.5 amps at 12v. That's a lot of current for a little motor.

Anyway...where am I going with all this babble...well I haven't completely drawn a conclusion yet...and I still think we can make this pump work...but my theroy right now is the Idex model 120 is trying to move about 6 times as much fluid as the Leimbach and these regular Johnson motors just weren't designed to generate that kind of power. Good news is these pumps have the extra capacity in a small package for the guys with big machines and big cylinders. Bad news is they are current hungry.

Next step is to run it geared down 3:1 or even more and see if the motor runs a comfortable speed and if it operates my test cylinders at the right rate. The pump seems to run 80 p.s.i. at pretty low RPMs so I am optimistic that lower RPM won't mean lower pressure...just lower volume and therefore ability to be driven by a 12v battery powered motor. Then I will insert the heavier spring I bought to modify the pressure relief to see if it runs closer to 10 bar, etc. etc.

Joe

[doodlebug]

Joe, you're on the right track with slowing it down for lower volume/amp's. I didn't have much luck with pump's in Vegas. Have to reload the computer, before I can post any picture's-Window's 7 Suck's! Mostly Window's Live!
Later, Neil#2 aka doodlebug.

[Finster]

Hi,

I hate to dig up old threads, but is there a final verdict on these pumps? Is it usable or not? Anyone find a solution? Thanks in advance.

[ihbuilder]

yes it could be usable I myself have not gotten to the testing stage . bear in mind , these are used pumps from some labatory set up . to buy a new 1 + replace the magnetic coupling is not worth it . New without the motor is aruond 300 usd . might just as well buy a "plug and play" set up from accross the pond .

[grumpygrady]

HERE IS A DRIVE FOR THAT PUMP

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Micropum...item4cfb99bc8d
and here is a link for the info on that series of pumps

http://www.micropump.com/support_doc...ical_Specs.pdf

[grumpygrady]

it says they are good for 300psi ?

[ihbuilder]

thats all well and good , but what happens when you get oil in the magnets . I've tried this with 2 of the smaller 1's I got as complete units .

[grumpygrady]

Originally Posted by ihbuilder

thats all well and good , but what happens when you get oil in the magnets . I've tried this with 2 of the smaller 1's I got as complete units .

ok i am confused
the one that was on ebay was a mag drive pump
it does not matter if you get oil on the magnets as they don't touch anything
in fact there is plastic between the two magnets

or are you talking about the one that was converted to shaft drive?

[grumpygrady]

the 120 series puts out 120 kpa which is 17 psi

http://www.csgnetwork.com/presskpapsicvt.html

[ihbuilder]

the reason for the mag coupling is to eliminate shaft seals I have 2 complete pump and motor set up with a mag drive . I tried 1 , as soon as I got oil in it it lost conection . They are not designed to pump oil with out removing the mag drive . then lies the ? if the poly pump gears will hold up in oil I might abandon this altogether do to what the pump was designed for ,deffinately not oil .

[gun]

Originally Posted by ihbuilder

the reason for the mag coupling is to eliminate shaft seals I have 2 complete pump and motor set up with a mag drive . I tried 1 , as soon as I got oil in it it lost conection . They are not designed to pump oil with out removing the mag drive . then lies the ? if the poly pump gears will hold up in oil I might abandon this altogether do to what the pump was designed for ,deffinately not oil .

steve get back in your cage and find my bricks and keep one finger on the green button

[ihbuilder]

Originally Posted by gun

steve get back in your cage and find my bricks and keep one finger on the green button

do what Paul make sure you put some mice in that rack for this guy

[grumpygrady]

Originally Posted by builder

do what Paul make sure you put some mice in that rack for this guy

thanks for the reply and for answering my questions
it is nice to be able to ask questions and have a adult conversation with someone without be called out or being made fun of because of an miss-understood question or reply
unlike at scale4x4 where folks jump down anyone's throat that asks a question that may or may not have been answered in the last ten years.
it seems that i need to ask the company why they say the pump will pump oil or heavy fluids, as you have tried and failed
again thanks for your time and trouble answering my questions


grumpygrady

[ihbuilder]

Originally Posted by grumpygrady

thanks for the reply and for answering my questions
it is nice to be able to ask questions and have a adult conversation with someone without be called out or being made fun of because of an miss-understood question or reply
unlike at scale4x4 where folks jump down anyone's throat that asks a question that may or may not have been answered in the last ten years.
it seems that i need to ask the company why they say the pump will pump oil or heavy fluids, as you have tried and failed
again thanks for your time and trouble answering my questions


grumpygrady

no prob I'm just up to my Eyes in work that I haven't got to check into them further

[ihbuilder]

I finally got to where Joe left off Altough I haven't run a pressure test ather then through a cylinder trying to stop it with in my hand ( can't ) it will move .5 oz in secounds of atf ( all I have on hand right now ) . I'm using a johnson motor similar to the 1 liembach uses with a 4:1 reduction . I still need to do an amp draw test and true pressure . I'm thinking of testing it in my 990 loader . I just need to finish my valves and make my cylinders . I put 1 of these on 1 of the mag drive motos I have . Just not enough magnetic force to keep it going . Now these mag drives are on a smaller pump that seems to just have a drip flow . to back up a little , I think what Joe is considering a press. relief valve , is more a flow control valve . nother words , if totally open you get a drip flow when totally closed full flow ( I hope that makes sense ) . The smaller pumps lack this just a hole where it should be but when closeed up I loose the mag coupling instantly . I was wrong when I said the mag will not work in oil I just couldn't hear it working w/out my mechanical ears .