Transmissions

[Aero 9000]

What transmissions are available for tractor trucks ?

Has anyone used a RC4wd 3 speed ? What are they like ? Has anyone disassembled one, i'm curious to know are they a crash gearbox like the old Tamiya hilux diecast gearbox or are they a dog box like the current tamiya plastic box...??


Also what are everyones thoughts on this 9 speed transmission...?? it has 3 ranges and 3 gears in each range and is full metal...??

[scalelover]

The Rc4wd 3 speed is not the greatest out there. I asked this same question not long ago and it ls said to have some hard shifting issues and the actual shifter is very tight requiring a high torque servo, and it's only 4x4 in first gear and 2wd in all others. With that said their 2 speed and single speed trannys are great but if course not as fun without all the gears.
Pricing also seems a bit steep on it compared to other 3 speeds.

As for the nine speed I've never seen it before so I can't give you any real input on it. Whose the manufacturer of it? And what's the cost?

--Dan

[Aero 9000]

Hi Dan,
when you say the RC4wd 3 speed has "hard shifting issues" do you mean it is difficult to shift without grinding gears or that it is physically hard to move the shifting mechanism ...?

The 9 speed is made by HGM in Australia.....don't know the cost....is the concept good...??

Thankyou.

[scalelover]

Both, shift shaft is very hard to move requires alot of torque does not feel super smooth and I've heard when shifting it tends to grind if the servo is not setup just right on the shaft (it can be finiky) also with shifting on the fly, but this you'd kind of expect with any trans seeing as they don't have clutches

--Dan

[Michael S]

Originally Posted by Aero 9000

Hi Dan,
when you say the RC4wd 3 speed has "hard shifting issues" do you mean it is difficult to shift without grinding gears or that it is physically hard to move the shifting mechanism ...?

The 9 speed is made by HGM in Australia.....don't know the cost....is the concept good...??

Thankyou.

Do you have a web on HGM?

[scalelover]

Originally Posted by Aero 9000

Hi Dan,
when you say the RC4wd 3 speed has "hard shifting issues" do you mean it is difficult to shift without grinding gears or that it is physically hard to move the shifting mechanism ...?

The 9 speed is made by HGM in Australia.....don't know the cost....is the concept good...??

Thankyou.

I was wondering the same as above do you have a link to the trans maker
Id like to look into a bit more and see what it's all about

--Dan

[Aero 9000]

Originally Posted by Michael S

Do you have a web on HGM?

No web, but a email: lkhanley@optusnet.com.au

[Aero 9000]

Originally Posted by scalelover

I was wondering the same as above do you have a link to the trans maker
Id like to look into a bit more and see what it's all about

--Dan

Hi, email lkhanley@optusnet.com.au , no web address.

[mack kid]

I e mailed him and he gave a great response and info. i gave him the forum info and told him to join and share his build. its designed to fit into trucks in replace of tamiya 3 speed.

[mazdaparts]

Its a shame the didn't make the case look more like a scale engine and tranny combo. Did the email list the gear ratios?

[grumpygrady]

Originally Posted by mack kid

I e mailed him and he gave a great response and info. i gave him the forum info and told him to join and share his build. its designed to fit into trucks in replace of tamiya 3 speed.

wow with just a little work that would look just like a engine and transmission lol

[mack kid]

I will post some more pics but motor is inside trany

[mack kid]

This is his e mail to me. i hope he joins or at least tells which forum build is on. Ratios are
high 1st 8.25 2nd 6.83 3rd 5.27
med 13.75 11.39 8.79
low 25.13 20.08 16.06

hope this helps

Hi Don,

The 9 speed was designed to fit into Tamiya a chassis replacing the 3 speed. it is the same overall length as the 3 speed, slightly narrower so it fits in between the rails with ease (unlike the 3 speed) but it is much higher owing to the larger number of internal shafts. It should fit inside a sleeper cab with no problem (with some moving around of radio gear, batteries ect), It will require two servos to shift. Day cabs will require the back wall of the cabin to be cut out so the box can extend trough. How much it extends through depends on where it is mounted on the chassis. if carefull repositioing of the front servos is done and the box moved further forward the transmission can sit in almost the same position as the engine and trans in the full size truck.

As shifting is concerned i would forsee that the 9 speed would essentially be shifted by selecting a range (high, mid, or low) with the right stick on the control in the vertical plane (right horizontal of course being steering) and then shift the gears 1st, 2nd and 3rd as normal with the left stick on the control in the horizontal plane, only changing ranges as the overall situation requires, rather than starting in 1st / low and shifting all the way through all the 9 gears to top. So in some situations you would start in High range / 1st and not even look at the 6 gears below that. In a crawling situation you may decide Low range is suitable and then start in either 1st, 2nd or 3rd and the same for Mid range. Chose a range then choose a gear. Having said that you can also start in low range and shift up through the ranges to high range selecting 1st, 2nd or 3rd at the same time. Almost endless possibilities.



The prototype. A production box would have helical gears on the motor's
primary reduction rather than the spur gears shown here.

The transmissions have a aluminium casing, steel pinions and countershafts, bronze cluster gears, steel syncronizers and more than 20 ball bearings. Supplied with a RS540 or RS555 motor. All gear shifting can be done on the go. Requires two servos to shift. Lubricated by automatic transmission fluid.


Price...???
This is a high end product for the scale model purist, not for the budget modeler....esentially a custom one at at time hand made gearbox. It is not a mass produced off the shelf item. It's cost will exceed the cost of the entire truck x 2. It will however be backed up with individual technical assistance to get each transmission working in the customers vehicle rather than the buy it and go away and die attitude of the manufacturers of the off the shelf gearboxes (which i hear have problems). Cost: $1250.00 AUS. If a customer is unsatsisfied with the transmission i will purchase it back from them for it's original sale price.


The 9 speed at this point is at a crossroads. The developement stage is completed, what is required now is enough interest given the high cost and small market to be shown to justify the expence of getting a large number of gear blanks produced (as the gear cutters have a minimum order number). Currently i have enough blanks to produce only one more transmission. If gear blanks were cut individually this thing would cost a million dollars..

I hope i have been informative.
Please feel free to ask any further questions.


Best Regards
lyle.

[Aero 9000]

Originally Posted by mack kid

I e mailed him and he gave a great response and info. i gave him the forum info and told him to join and share his build. its designed to fit into trucks in replace of tamiya 3 speed.

So what are everyones thoughts on the 9 speed transmission..??

Is it a matter of "there is no need for it".....???

That is a dangerous argument, as there is "no need for" almost everything that gets bolted on to a RC truck, like headlights, tailights, sound systems, springs, shock absorbers, smoke generators, mirrors, exhausts, fuel tanks, ect, ect, ect....

Is there anyone that would have one, or will people wait till the big manufacturers offer it, like RC car enthusiasts did with suspension ......???

[JAMMER]

This transmission cost 1250 AUS or $ 1347.34 US you can do a 8 speed for about $500 US or a 6 speed for about $355.31 US all aluminum cases and all metal gears. Ed

[Tamiya Cowboy]

I am with Jammer I would go the 6 speed first as for the cost does not warrant the extra 3 gears. And I have a truck set up with a 6 speed and it was cool at first but now when ever it gets driven i only still run 3 gears at most. But you are also right not everything is needed that is on a truck a item like this will come down to what options a guy would want on there truck and it is a very nice piece you have built.

[SonoranWraith]

Yeah I think the transmissions are one of those things that doesn't translate from the 1:1 to scale modeling. Diesel engines work in a narrow range so the transmissions are geared to keep them working in that range. The electric motors we use provide a lot more range and at small scale you need slow with power so a low gear and a high gear really provide all you need.

[Cossett]

I think the all in one 9s is a great idea, but it's a little on the large side for the guys that want a interior, a day cab, a tipper on the back or other,
If it was smaller/more compact I think there would be a bigger market for the guys that want all those gears and were willing to fork out over a grand for a gear box,
For most people it would come down to cost, how much room it takes up as there are alot of cabs out there that are crammed with electrics when the body is off and for most a 3 speed is plenty...
Just my thoughts...

[Aero 9000]

Originally Posted by SonoranWraith

Yeah I think the transmissions are one of those things that doesn't translate from the 1:1 to scale modeling. Diesel engines work in a narrow range so the transmissions are geared to keep them working in that range. The electric motors we use provide a lot more range and at small scale you need slow with power so a low gear and a high gear really provide all you need.

You are quite correct.
The RS540 is quite a broad range and torquey motor.
If someone was seeking scale realism in perfomance (as many do in railroad models) a electric motor of narrower performance range could be selected to simulate the diesels performance. Perhaps the RS555. It is likely that such a motor would draw considerably less amperage than the average RS540 so far greater running times may also be achieved along with the more realistic performance.

It would be a matter of individual taste....

[Aero 9000]

Originally Posted by Cossett

I think the all in one 9s is a great idea, but it's a little on the large side for the guys that want a interior, a day cab, a tipper on the back or other,
If it was smaller/more compact I think there would be a bigger market for the guys that want all those gears and were willing to fork out over a grand for a gear box,
For most people it would come down to cost, how much room it takes up as there are alot of cabs out there that are crammed with electrics when the body is off and for most a 3 speed is plenty...
Just my thoughts...

Thankyou for your thoughts on the matter.

Many things do not go from 1:1 down to scale. This is a real problem. this is why the trans is a lot larger than a scale model of a real trans would be. The gears inside are around Tamiya size. And there are a number of technical reasons why Tamiya went for that size of gears.
If you did a scale model of a real trans the gears and shafts would be tiny. It would be like watch making, it would be fragile and prone to breakage and bearing failures and the gears being so small would need to hardened steel and then ground...
OMG....if you think 1300 bucks is over the top, a minature scale gearbox with tiny hardend and ground gears would cost more than the national debt....

This monster 9 speed can be mounted further forward in the chassis with some inginuity reducing the overhang at the rear of a day cab to 1/2 inch.

Everything in engineering is a compromise, what one person will trade off another won't.....As i say it is a matter of individual taste...