Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

Are those on the vario not tapered?, every pad I've seen is well radiused and tapered. If I ever get my pic's uploaded, you will see what I have done with mine. What is the track pitch on that machine?

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

catmack your more then welcome . best way to load pics is through an off site photo account like photobucket .

I think if we get enough of us going on this we can produce a bunch of sizes .

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

I was able to post at my other post, see attached link. IH, I have 12 sizes layed out with a size common that will also cross-scale. I started with my 1/8th then 1/10, 1/12 and 1/14. The samples you see, will each have four different pitches all together. In order to make this hobby more affordable and accessible to more people, a standard will have to be set and I am willing to take on that roll if it allows more people to enjoy it and is needed. I hope I am not doing this link wrong.

http://rctruckandconstruction.com/showthread.php?t=6016

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

I'm going off this picture and some pictures of the vario tracks and it looks like they have a very slight taper. other than the tailing face of the last grouser has a greater taper. Also if I was to taper them it would really increase my machining cost as they would either need to be machined on a 4 axis machine with a tilting head of just have multiple passes using a ball nose which would take much for time than a few passes with just a 90deg endmill. And im sure you know, time is money! :cool:

http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps263bb083.jpg

I may make another grouser pad just like this with more some details and see what machining cost will be.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w...psa9a4f672.jpg

I got en e-mail form my machine shop today and they said they are just wrapping up the quote and should have it within a day or two. I may send them another grouser pad that is a little more scale and complicated to see how much it will cost.


But the good thing is, is that if this pitch that I am currently using is what you guys can use then I can make multiple different grouser pads that will bolt onto the link with just unbolting the old one and bolt the new one back into place making this a very universal system!

Chris

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

Chris, that looks really good. Are you going to do a dozer pad as well?

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

Chris,

I agree, making a unit as universal as possible is one of the most important things to keep in mind. What kind of steel did you have in mind? In the photo, what size machine is that? Colin

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

Thats the plan! If it all works out my plan is to make tracks exactly as people would want as long as somebody will buy them cause even though I'm not trying to make a business out of it I don't want to have my money tied up in some track pieces just sitting here because nobody needed them.

catmack,

Thats exactly what I was thinking, if I had a set of links that could be used with any track pad you want then it would make things much more simple.

I would like to use stainless :D but its not cheap! so probably will be going with just a standard carbon steel that the machine shop would have, not too sure on the exact compound.

I'm not too sure on the size of the machine in the picture, it was just a picture Azonic sent me to use as a reference

Chris

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

A question about material sticking to the pads. Would spraying the pads with something like Pam, the non-stick cooking spray or some silcon-based spray, reduce the problem?

Ken

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

Its good to see someone take the bull by the horns with the track situation .I have a set of nylon ones on my TD 25 and can see some wear with the short amount of use on mine and the scale appearance could use a bit of work as well...I like the Idea of the two peice track link or could even make it a 3 peice with the bolts and pins holding the two links together .Probably simplify some of the machining ..Your Cad/cam work is very good ..Hopfully one day i can master that as well ..which one are you using and are you pretty happy with it ?

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

What is the pitch?, number of pads, width etc.?, are the links steel?

When you say you have noticed wear in a short time, what is short 2 hours, 10 hours, 40??...

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

After looking at my posts here, I feel like I broke the rules. Chris, I apologize for dumping my thoughts on your thread. I should have commented on my thread. If the mod or admin. could move my comments or delete them, what ever you see fit, I would be greatful. This is not how I envisioned contibuting to the hobby?...again, I am sorry if I offended anyone here. Colin

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

sparkycuda - I had thought about that as well, but I would think that It would be taken off in a matter or seconds in the dirt. I also thought you could apply a non-stick teflon coating but that would not look to scale.

tracksntreadslou - Thanks you! I felt it was the best way to get things done sooner than later as In September I will begin full time school and no time to help out by doing this.

Catmack - No worries, no harm was done and you apologized so it is all good!

Update! :D

Have a little update that could be seen good or bad depending on how you see it. I got a quote back from a machine shop to have 225x 3-piece track links made, all CNC machined from an ISO 9001:2000, ISO 9001:2008, QS:-9000, ISO 14001:2004 certified machine shop ,made from 7075 Aluminum with a black hard anodizing. For $14.20 USD, which is a little much so I am going to work with them to reduce the cost and which will require switching to 6061-T6 Aluminum. If this happens to be the best path to be taken I will beef up the current design to withstand years of abuse.

Also just wanted to ask who would really be intrested in purchasing some tracks? I would need a pretty strong guarantee as the machine shop likes to do higher quantity orders and with a higher quantity the price per unit will drop. I can post dimensions if people would like. They are basically a direct bolt on setup for Vario machines and whatever other use you want!

I cannot guarantee any price right now as Im still working hard to make it affordable for everyone to have nice CNC metal tracks!! :cool:

Please let me know so if you would like some so I can get an updated quote for everyone!

Thanks everyone,

Chris


*Edit - Also just want to let everyone know that if many people decide they would like some I would prefer to do large orders every so often rather than small orders of the same item constantly, as It will save time, and most importantly money, as I can guarantee if you come to me later asking for say 75 track pads I will not be able to give you a good bulk price due to the machine shop prices, as I have to at minimum cover my costs.

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

Did Kalle tell you how many links in the Vario? (I don't want to crawl around in the dirt to count for myself, if at all possible :p).

Depends greatly on the final price... if you can't get even close to cutting that 1st quote in half, it's not worth it to me just to have metal tracks for the sake of a scale appearance. :rolleyes:

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

I think he said 55 per side, don't quote me on that :P

Yea thats exactly what I am thinking, I revised the parts to simplify the machining process so we will see how that goes. I want to keep them as scale as possible without killing everybody's bank!

I will let you know how it goes!

Chris

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

I was guesstimating 60 per side, so a bit less is better yet. :D

Thanx man for your research on this, hopefully something positive can come from your efforts of it. ;)

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

ill see what i can do!

No problem, i just hope it all works out. or else i guess it was all for nothing.. Lol

Chris

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

Chris, your efforts are noble and of good intent. This is what it takes to make progress and I think this is what this hobby needs.

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

It certainly won't be all for nothing if it doesn't come to fruition, at the very least it'll be a good learning curve for you in terms of a feasibility study for your chosen profession & as well as the rest of us who contemplate other what if scenerios. ;)

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

Looks like I may be able to get them made for about 9usd. But i need to order 700 track sections. I'll post all the details tonight when I'm home from work

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

Okay so here's what seems to be the solution and current state of this "project" if you want to call it that.


Good News

The machine shop can have a whole link made; grouser bar, two link, connecting pin for $8USD. But I would need to charge probably around (not 100% yet) 8.50-$9USD each link to cover my the shipping cost, bolts and C clips.

Bad news, kind of

To get this price per piece we need to have a total order of 700 links or more. It sounds like I have about 330 links, Half way there, woo hoo!

These, like mentioned before are a direct fitment to the vario equipment.

Also the material list:

grouser pad - 7075 Aluminum
track links - 6061-T6 Aluminum
Connecting pin - Carbon steel

This looks like it will be the final design. I had to change the links a little bit to reduce cost but I tried to keep the grouser as scale as possible.

http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps0cfa8429.jpg

http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps57931f13.jpg

http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps36e85e50.jpg


Any questions let me know so I can get this going asap!!

And if your intrested or know anybody who would be intrested send them my way as it looks like I wont have these made very often with the larger quantity required.

Chris

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

Could you put a drawing where I could see the dimensions for reference?

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Madda - oops forgot to post that! Ill post some blue prints asap!

Also wanted to mention that all pieces come in a Black hard anodizing :D no extra cost!

Chris

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

I dont know if its just the rendering/shadows but the grousers look a bit too high or to thick?

Very nice that they are anodized black for the same price! :)

Im in! :)

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

These grousers look more slim and seem to have thinner grousers and not so thick as the last rendering...

http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps39ebd19c.jpg

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

If I had a Rc construction toy that needed tracks then I would be in but I have no need at the moment.

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

Chris, the price seems pretty reasonable, they look good, it's certainly an option for some of the people here.

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

Chris do you realize that there are 2 inside dimensions for the tracks? On the Vario excavator the old ones or original took a single row sprocket and the revised ones have a double row sprocket. I am not sure but the tracks might be a little bit wider. Ed

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

The old ones had a wide inside too. I still have the 2 bar pad on mine. I added a washer to either side of the sprocket to fill the gap.

The older set & newer set come from the same manufacturer.

http://www.modellbaudiepold.de/2_steg_kettenglied.html

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

Kingcam2 - Okay, maybe sometime in the future :)

catmack - Thanks!

Jammer - Okay ill talk to azonic and figure out which these are designed to fit on.

Lil Giants - how wide is the inside dimension on the wide track?

Chris

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

Chris I have both tracks and the 2 different double row sprockets one from Vario and one I bought somewhere else to fit the old chain. I will try and mike them up by the weekend.. The old chain links are narrower inside were the sprockets ride on the back side of the link than the new ones that is why I have 2 different sprockets. The newer chain is wider inside than the old one.

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

You are right Ed, I got a reply from Frank, Vario's new triple bar tracks come from their own self made molds and it's a different pitch too.. he didn't say what the difference was.

If Kalle was specing from the old double bar tracks, then you'll need the old double sprocket you sourced from France.

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

OK here we go I went out in the garage an shaking from the cold 27 degrees no heat could not light my heater and got these measurements shaking and still shaking in the house. Old sprocket outside measurement .323 old chain inside measurement .340 new sprocket .609 outside measurement new chain .489 inside measurement both chain measurements are taken from the inside of the chain were the sprocket rider. Joe no I did not get the narrow sprockets from France I got both of them here in the states for $ 75 for the pair I believe if you remember I sent you an email about them. I hope this helps to answers a few questions. Ed

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

I talked to Frank and he said he will be converting his 470 to the new cast tracks with new sprocket, rollers and idler, he was going to get back to me when he has done that to see how it goes.

I think the 490 will be a nice machine, but **** i want to see a Volvo made! :)

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

It sounds like that 490 will be a hole new design and smaller than the ones we have.Ed

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

Sorry for the lack of response but I am very busy right now working OT and trying to do tons of other stuff in my personal life.

Anyways it sounds like we wont be able to meet the 700 piece quota and it looks like we have only 450 needed. :o

So ill see what the machine shop says but ill warn you it may be a bust.... :(

Chris

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

Are you still looking at having this go forward, or has this completely died?

I am new to the building process, and to the site. I will update my profile when I am not at work.

Basically, grew up on a farm where we had a 1955 d8 most my life, and just now have been getting a pull scraper, excavator, and grader on the farm. I just moved away from home though for work as an engineer since finishing school.

I think it would be fun to build some models as my great uncle used to do it.

thanks,

kyle

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

My tracks on my 4200 xl are carbon 4 steel, if that helps any, I would like to know as well what the best metal would be for tracks. A lot of the euro Models have either brass or aluminium tracks? Not sure what grade of aluminuim though?

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

hi have got the 4200 xl my self and am a earthmoving business owner operator I take great pride in excavators and when it comes to scale models the 4200xl is pretty close but it needs a few mods, the steel tracks are great you want to try to keep the weight to the ground, alloy tracks are prob gona be a lot lighter therefor you will not get the traction when digging, I have also replaced the slew motor to a 60rpm motor rather than a 30rpm the digger originally did about 5rpm slewing now does 10rpm where as a 30ton excavator does about 12rpm. so the scaling is closer but you do lose out on a bit of slew power but you can move a **** of a lot more dirt when u slew faster. as far as the tracks go I think the 4200xl needs track chains with holes in the sides and the grousers need the 2 holes in the top because just not enough dirt escapes and it locks up the tracks and you do in the final drive motors all the time, I think ive gone through 4 motors already.

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

love your work with the 3D cad drawings not sure if u started to mill these yet but if you havn't the idlers need to be a lot smaller and maybe the grousers a little wider if you want I can give you the dimensions of my digger for reference

Re: Possible Solution For Tracked Equiptment
 

This is an old thread and I guess the track project was put on the shelf. Anyway these days scratch builders have several relative low priced mass-produced track pads of around 2 inch wide to choose from, both from Germany and Asia, plastic, steel, Alu-zink castings, so hardly no point in putting down effort in fabricate it by oneself. Unless one needs everything 100% through to scale...Naturally in the 1:1 world the dimensions are different for a 30 tonn and a 60 tonn machine, even though track pads can be the same width.
The 4200xl is a quite basic machine, where one has kept the level of detailing on a minimum to keep cost down. I think they just want to keep it this way, as a cheap 'starter machine'. They actually haven't any real competition in this price range, so they don't care too much about developing the machine. There should have been added a spring on the idler in order for the tracks not to jam that often, and track engines are under-powered. But hey, one can't expect the same as from machines costing 3 times more.